Mac support being dropped

[Lhivera]

STO is officially dropping their Mac client. I’ll have to decide what this means for me. I’ve always made official Mac support a basic requirement for any game I play; it was a huge part of why I started playing WoW and kept at it for nine years, and the introduction of the Mac client is what brought me over from WoW to STO. And as a practical matter, I’d need to buy a new computer to keep playing; my old Mac Mini barely squeaks by with the official client, and isn’t really up to the job running with the WINE wrapper. And I don’t particularly want to buy a new computer, because it’s perfectly good for everything else I use it for.

No firm decision yet. I’ll keep you all posted.

[Marcase]

Well that sucks canal water. I know that the % of Mac players is low, but that still means ( potential) customers. Heck, Aaron Eisenberg is a die-hard Mac user, so that’s a supporter they’ll lose.

"Boldly bashing Borg to bits since 2012..."

[Damix]

Big fail from their side. Why did they started it if they aren’t capable of supporting it.

Are there any other emulators so you can launch it from Mac?

[Lhivera]

In truth, this is largely a consequence of Apple’s relentless pursuit of thinner, lighter, more energy efficient, in all things. They make beautiful, slender hardware, but essentially every device they make except the Mac Pro is now using mobile graphics hardware, because there’s no room for anything else. And not many people who aren’t doing heavy graphics, scientific, or video work are using Mac Pros. They’ve prioritized their form factor design goals over game performance. Which is understandable, because it works for them, but it’s also understandable for game developers to balk at trying to work around the resulting limitations.

A few months ago I started to toy with the idea of picking up an inexpensive gaming PC. After it was announced that Overwatch wouldn’t be coming for Mac — remember that Blizzard has had simultaneous Windows and Mac releases for every game in the past twenty years or so — 85 seemed like the writing was on the wall. So if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to put them out there. Ideally I’d like something with a small form factor that runs very quiet (I’m used to my Mac Mini being nearly silent). I don’t need a monitor, but I’ll need to find a switch so I can toggle my monitor between the Mac and the Windows box. It’d be awesome to be able to run STO at max graphics settings, but cost is the primary concern, since I won’t be using it for anything but gaming, if I actually do this.

[Lhivera]

@Damix wrote:

Big fail from their side. Why did they started it if they aren’t capable of supporting it.

Are there any other emulators so you can launch it from Mac?

I used a WINE wrapper during the problems with the Mac client back during New Dawn launch. It works, but it’s too sluggish for regular use.

It’s also possible to use Boot Camp to dual-boot a Mac between OS X and Windows, but frankly that’s just too much of a pain in my butt. I really need to be able to toggle between the game and other stuff I do without having to reboot.

I think another factor in this may be outside their control: as I understand it, Transgaming, the company that made the compatibility wrapper they used (which is WINE-based, but better optimized), has sold their emulation assets to Nvidia. It may well be that Cryptic no longer has anyone to support and update the Mac wrapper.

[Jim44305]

@Lhivera wrote:

It’d be awesome to be able to run STO at max graphics settings, but cost is the primary concern, since I won’t be using it for anything but gaming, if I actually do this.

I’m just curious what you’d consider your budget to be if you were to look for a pc to use for gaming?

[Marcase]

FWIW, I played STO on an old machine when I was travelling; a dual-core 3Ghz, 2 GB Ram and internal graphics – guess that’s as bare-bone as it gets these days. Since the cheapest way to get a decent (game) PC is to build it yourself, your budget will be the deciding force.

For about 300 euros you can get a GA-B85M-HD3 R4 (socket 1150)/ i5-4460 / 8 GB micro-ATX basic set. Adding power, case and other bits that would total to 450-500 euros. Not the shiniest, but a solid proven set.

"Boldly bashing Borg to bits since 2012..."

[Lhivera]

@Jim44281 wrote:

@Lhivera wrote:

It’d be awesome to be able to run STO at max graphics settings, but cost is the primary concern, since I won’t be using it for anything but gaming, if I actually do this.

I’m just curious what you’d consider your budget to be if you were to look for a pc to use for gaming?

Very small. I don’t really do a lot of gaming. Having an MMO to play is valuable to me because a good chunk of my life is providing care for a chronically ill family member, and it lets me kind of turn my brain off and relax when I’m not actively caregiving but need to be available, but I generally have just one game that I play, and that’s about it. For nine years it was WoW, for the past two, STO.

So it’s a machine that is basically for playing one game, while a $500 four-year-old Mac handles all my other computing needs. Since people have been telling me for 20 years that they can build a PC for half the cost of a Mac that will blow it away in performance, I’m hoping that wasn’t crazy exaggeration and that I can get away with something in the $300-$400 range (considerably more than half, but it is four years old, after all). The Saab is still in the shop, and its gearbox is in St. Louis awaiting a part from Europe, so I’ve got a couple big bills coming in to get it back on the road — can’t justify much for a gaming-only machine.

I found some suggested setups here. Any thoughts?
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Felitegamingcomputers.com%2Fgood-cheap-gaming-computers%2F&h=wAQFB9v0t

[Lhivera]

Oh, charming, check it out:

[*] We will be canceling and refunding any active recurring subscriptions purchased between October 1, 2015 and today, including Lifetime Subscriptions. If a payment was made other than a credit card or Paypal, the value of the subscription will be reimbursed to your Arc Account Balance.
[*] We will be reimbursing any Zen that was purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.
[*] We will be reimbursing the value of any Packs purchased through Arc or Steam between October 1, 2015 and today to your Arc Account Balance.

So, presumably this means I get back the $100 worth of Zen I purchased a month ago.

I guess so we Mac users can use this refunded Zen in their other games.

…which are all Windows-only.

Yeah, twist the knife…just like that.

[Jim44305]

I see. I was going to suggest something a bit pricier than what you are looking to pay. I don’t like being stuck in one room while using my computer so i only buy laptops. Usually would buy something around $600 and in a year it would be incapable of running anything new. So three years ago I decided to dig up the extra money to buy a more powerful laptop. My thinking was I could pay $600 for one again that would really only last me a year or pay in the range of $1500 and get something that should be able to run everything new coming out for 5 years. I ended up spending $1400 and three years later it’s still running everything on max settings. Most recently I’ve played Guild Wars 2 and Star Trek Online both on highest settings without so much as a hiccup. So I’m thinking getting another 2 or 3 years out of this one isn’t out of the question. I did recently look at what I could get for a comparable price if I were looking for a replacement now. I found another laptop from the same company that made mine for only $1200 or $1300 that was easily twice as good as what I use.

I’d hate to see you forced out of the game by such an unfortunate problem, so I hope you’re able to sort things out in time.

[defcon1776]

@Lhivera wrote:

Yeah, twist the knife…just like that.

Ouch

[Lhivera]

Boy, I have no knowledge of PC hardware at all. Last time I used one outside of work was 15 years ago, when I built a little headless FreeBSD server.

So, the hardware I’ve been using since 2011 (my Mini is older than I remembered!) is as follows:

2.7 GHz Intel Core i7
8 GB RAM
AMD Radeon HD 6630M
256 MB VRAM

Running in the Cider wrapper, the official client gets pretty mediocre FPS at near-minimum settings. There are some i3 and i5 PCs with integrated graphics in my current price range available, but I have no idea how those compare to a five-year-old i7 with a Radeon card. (I was originally going to try saving some money by building my own, but then I realized I don’t own Windows, and buying a copy would pretty much eat up the savings.)

Any recommendation on minimum hardware required to run STO at medium-to-full settings?

[Marcase]

that hardware you have listed there should do it, may invest in a more modern card like an NVidia 680-series and up.

maybe this is of use – http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=80&game=Star%20Trek%20Online

Minimum recommended for STO;
OS: Windows 7 (32 or 64-bit)
CPU: Intel E8400 Core 2 Duo or AMD Athlon X2 5600+ (obviously a more modern CPU is better)
Memory: 2GB RAM+
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 / ATI Radeon HD 3850+
Sound: DirectX 9.0c Compatible Soundcard
DirectX: Version 9.0c or Higher
HDD: 8GB Free Disk Space (which is now a lot more with all the updates; my system reads 30 GB for Cryptics/STO folder).

I’m echoing Jim here, it’s best to invest a bit more for a ‘better than decent’ system now or at least an upgradeable system to get some better mileage out of your investment, even if you’re a Mac user.

"Boldly bashing Borg to bits since 2012..."

[Lhivera]

Having poked around both Staples and Best Buy, it appears that they barely carry desktop models in-store anymore. So I’ll probably just put a list of parts together and order from Newegg and build my own. Maybe I can get a copy of Windows 7 cheap and take advantage of the free upgrade to 10. I may draw from these lists here:

http://elitegamingcomputers.com/good-cheap-gaming-computers/

If I need to skimp on something, maybe I’ll get a cheap-but-adequate GPU and then upgrade it later.

[Blackout]

For STO in particular, since the game is CPU heavy as opposed to GPU heavy, you want a strong CPU, and a mid-range value GPU will do just fine. High end GPUs are ridiculously expensive, and very quickly lose the justification for their premium price, especially on the high end.

So $400 option from the site you’re looking at will probably play STO at maximum, although I’d consider paying the $100 premium to get an Intel i5 (6500?) for the extra oomph, and just ease of spec comparison going forward (most people understand the performance level of an Intel chip vs an AMD), and maybe go from the GTX 950 to 960 (since the price difference really isn’t that big), but now you’re into the $500-$550 range.

Keep in mind this isn’t going to be playing bleeding edge stuff at 4k, but it’ll play most new stuff at a respectable frame rate at mid settings @ 1920×1080.

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